|Amalgamation by Clayton||Clayton Report||Smith Diary||Richards Record|
President Joseph called upon the choir to sing a him and remarked that "tenor charms the ear-bass the heart." After sing the President spoke in substance as follows.
¶ I have three requests to make of the congregation the first is that all who have faith will exercise it, that the Lord may be willing to calm the wind. The next is, that I may have your prayers that the Lord may strengthen my lungs so that, I may be able to make you all hear. And the next is, that I may have the Holy Ghost to rest upon me so as to enable me to declare those things that are true.
|Tenor charms the ear- bass the heart- Marcellus Page
I have 3 requests- all who have faith exercise. that the Lord may be willing to came the wind. Next. have your prayers strength my lungs - next I may have the H. G. to enable me to declare such things that are true -
¶ 1st that all who have faith will pray Lord to calm the wind. for as it is now. I cannot speak.
¶ 2 that the Lord will strengthen my Lungs.
¶ 3rd that I may have the Holy Ghost.
| Josephs Sayings At the 1843 Conference
The reason why God is greater than all others IS He knows how to subject all
things to himself Knowledge is Power A beast is never used to represent the Church
BUT man in his degenerate state having become like brute Beasts
¶ None of Johns beasts 1 refer or apply to any thing previous to Christ except it is specified (Quoted Rev 4-1)
¶ The Revelator John saw THINGS in Heaven Beasts women &c The Prophets on Earth in vision saw (as the Hebrew says) the images of Beasts Rev 5 13th Proves that John saw Beasts in Heaven and heard them speak praise to God do not know what Language they speak.
¶ The subject I intend to speak upon this morning is one that I have seldom
touched upon since I commenced as an Elder of the Church. It is a subject of
great speculation as weIl amongst the Elders of the church as amongst the divines
of the day; it is in relation to the beast spoken of in Revelations. The reason
why it has been a subject of speculation amongst the Elders, is in consequence of
a division of sentiment and opinion in relation to it. My object is to do away with
this difference of opinion.
|Subject that I seldom have touched upon since I commenced - subj. of great spec. as well among the Ers as the divines - sub of beast in Rev. Reason why is in consequence of a division of sentiment amongst the bra my object is to do away dis the knowledge of this thing is not very essential.||¶ The subject which I shall speak from is the beasts spoken of by John.--I have seldom spoken from the revelations & I do it now to do away divisions & not that the knowledge is so much needed.--|
To have knowledge in relation to the meaning of beasts and heads horns and other figure made use of in the revelations is not very essential to the Elders. If we get puffed up by thinking that we have much knowledge, we are apt to get a contentious spirit, and knowledge is necessary to do away contention. The evil of being puffed up is not so great as the evil of contention. Knowledge does away darkness, suspense and doubt, for where Knowledge is there is no doubt nor suspense nor darkness.
There is no pain so awful as the pain of suspense. this is the condemnation of the wicked; their doubt and anxiety and suspense causes weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
|¶ knowledge is necessary to prevent division although it may puff up it does away suspense.|
In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because he has greater Knowledge, and hence he knows how to subject all other beings to him. I will endeavour to instruct you in relation to the meaning of the beasts and figures spoken of.
|in relation to beasts heads figues &c. if we get to much puffed up- K is nee to do away evil- the K of being puffed up is not so great as the evil of contention if they were to climb to the top of mt Pisgah the God would hear Knowledge does away darkness suspence, doubt for where K is there is no doubt &c. no pain so awful as the pain of suspense - this is the condemnation of the wicked- doubt anxiety causes wailing in K there is power. God has more power than all other beings Instuct you in relation to the beasts -||
in knowledge is power, hence Gods knows how to subject all beings he has power--over
¶ should not have called up this subject if it had not been for this old white head before Father Brown.
E[lde]r (Pelatiah) Brown has been the cause of this subject being now presented before you. He, one of the wisest old heads we have among us, has been called up before the High Council on account of the beast. The old man has preached concerning the beast which was full of eyes before and behind and for this he was hauled up for trial. I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter-day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don't prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine. The High Council undertook to censure and correct Elder Brown because of his teachings in relation to the beasts, and he came to me to know what he should do about it. The subject particularly referred to, was the four beasts and four and twenty Elders mentioned in Rev. ch 5 v. 8. The old man has confounded all Christendom by speaking out that the four beasts represented the Kingdom of God; the wise men of the day could not do any thing with him, and why should we find fault, anything to whip sectarianism and put down priestcraft; a club is better than no weapon for a poor man to fight with,
|Er Brown has been the cause one of the wisest old heads we have among us has been called up before the high c on account of the beasts. The old man preached about the beast &c & was hauled up never thought it was right to called up a man for erring in doctrine to much like methodism not Latter Dayism- Methodists has creed. kicked out - want the liberty of believing as I please feels so good. Dont prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine- The H. C undertook to correct him- Er B came to me. Rev 5.- four beasts & four & twenty Ers | 8 verse | he had confounded all christendom by speaking out tha the 4 beasts repd the wise men could not do any thing with im - any thing to whip sectarians & put down priestcraft- a club is better than none for a poor man to fight||
--I did not like the old man being called up before the High Council for erring in
doctrine.-- why I feel so good to have the privilege of thinking & believing as I
¶ They undertook to correct him there (whether they did or not I don't care)
¶ Rev. 5 Chap 8 verse.--Father Brown had been to work & confounded all christendom, that these were figure John saw in heaven to represent the different kingdoms of God on earth. he put down Sectarianism, & so far so good.--
but I could not keep laughing at the idea of God making use of the figure of a beast to represent the Kingdom of God on the earth, when he could as well have used a far more noble and consistent figure. What? The Lord make use of the figure of a creature of the brute creation to represent that which is much more noble and important. The glories of his Kingdom? You missed it that time, old man, but the sectarians did not know enough to detect you.
¶ When God made use of the figure of a beast in visions to the I prophets, he did it to represent those Kingdoms who had degenerated and become corrupt--the Kingdoms of the world, but he never made use of the figure of a beast nor any of the brute kind to represent his kingdom. Daniel says when he saw the vision of the four beasts "I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this." The angel interpreted the vision to Daniel, but we find by the interpretation that the figures of beasts had no allusion to the Kingdom of God. You there see that the beasts are spoken of to represent the Kingdoms of the world the inhabitants whereof were beastly and abominable characters, they were murderous, corrupt, carnivorous and brutal in their dispositions. I make mention of the prophets to qualify my declaration which I am about to make so that the young Elders who know so much may not rise up and choke me like hornets. there is a grand difference and distinction between the visions and figures spoken of by the prophets and those spoken of in the Revelations of John.
|could not help laughing at the idea of Gods making use of
the figue of a beast to represent the king doms of God on
the earth - when he could haveused a more noble figure
what? make use of the figure of a meaner creature to rep a
more glorious one - you mist it old man but the sec.
did not know enough to detect him.
When God made use of the figure of a beast to the prophets he did it to rep. that portion who had degenerated - the K's of the O. Daniel says when he saw beast- angel interpreted- had no allusion to the K. of God.- all the figure of beasts rep. the K of the O. beastly & abominable charcters. they were murderous corrupt carnivorous in their dispositions. Make mention of the prophets to qualify any declaration I am about to make. that the young Ers may not choke me. like hornets - dif between the prophts & the Rev of John -
|but I could not help laughing that God should take a figure of a beast to represent his kingdom consisting of Men.--To take a lessor figure to represent a greater. old white head you missed it that time. By figure of Beasts God represented the kingdoms of the world.--Bear. Lion &c. represented the kingdoms of the world. Says Daniel for I refer to the prophets. to qualify my observations. to keep out of the wasp nests or young elders.|
None of the things John saw had any allusion to the scenes of the days of Adam or of Enoch or of Abraham or Jesus, only as far as is plainly represented by John and clearly set forth. John only saw that which was "shortly to come to pass" and that which was yet in futurity (He read Rev. ch. 1 v. 1) Now I make this declaration, that those things Which John saw in heaven, had no allusion to any thing that had been on the earth, because John says "he saw what was shortly to come to pass" and not what had already transpired. John saw beasts that had to do with things on the earth, but not in past ages; the beasts which he saw had to devour the inhabitants of the earth in days to come. The revelations do not give us to understand any thing of the past in relation to the Kingdom of God.
|none of the things John saw had any had any allusion in the days of Adam, Enoch Ab or Jesus- only as reprensented to John & clearly set forth- John saw that which was shortly to come to pass futurity read Rev c1 v1- declaration- those things that John saw in he had no allusion to any thing that had been on the earth because John saw what was to shortly come to pass- John saw beasts that had to do with thing on the earth- but not in past ages the beast had to devour the inhabitants, The Rev. do not give us to understand any thing past in relation of the K of God-|| ¶
The things John saw had no allusion to the day of Adam Enoch Abraham or Jesus--only
as clearly specified & set forth to John. I saw that the which was lying in futurity.
Rev. 1.1.--read is key to the whole subject
¶ 4 beasts. & 24 Elders which was out of every Nation.--it is great stuffing, to stuff all nations into 4 beasts & 24 Elders things which he saw had no allusions to what had been--but what must shortly come to pass.--Rev is one of the plainest books god ever caused to be written---
What John saw and speaks of were things which were in heaven, what the prophets saw and speak of where things pertaining to the earth. I am now going to take exception to the present translation of the bible in relation to these matters. There is a grand distinction between the actual meaning of the Prophets and the Present translation. The Prophets do not declare that they saw a beast or beasts, but that they saw the image or figure of a beast. They did not see an actual bear or Lion but the images or figures of those beasts. The translation should have been rendered "image" instead of "beast" in every instance where beasts are mentioned by the Prophets. But John saw the actual beast in heaven, to show to John
|what John saw was in heaven- prophets on the ed also going to take exceptions to the translation - distinction pro do not declare the saw beast but that they saw the image or figure of beasts. they did not see an actual bear a lion - should have been rendered image instead of beast in every instance - John saw the actual beast in heaven, to shew that that being did exist there. when p. saw they were images types to represent & they received an interpretation.||
what John saw he saw in heaven--that which |
¶ They saw figures of beasts.--they, Daniel did not see a lion & a bear. he saw an image like unto a bear.--in every place.--John saw the actual beast itself.--it was to let John know that beasts existed there & not to represent figures of things on the earth.--
I make this broad declaration, that where God ever gives a vision of an image,
or beast or figure of any kind he always holds himself responsible to give a
revelation or interpretation of the Meaning thereof, otherwise we are not
responsible or accountable for our belief in
|I set it forth by the broad dec. where God ever gives a vision of an image &c he always holds himself responsible to give a Rev. or interpretation otherwise we are not responsible - dont be afraid of being damned for not knowing this where God has not given a Rev. read Rev 5-11 - particularly 13. John saw curious looking beast in heaven - saw every creature that was in heaven &c- all the beast foul fish in heaven- actually, there giving glory to God. I suppose John saw beings there that had been saved from 10000 times 10000 earths like this - strange beasts - might be seen there in heaven . -||
The prophets always had interpretations of their visions &c God always holds
himself responsible to give revelations of his visions & if he does it not,
we are not responsible.--
¶ speculators read not, fear they shall be condemned. if God has given no Rev
¶ How do you prove John saw creatures in heaven? C 5. V 11. revelation. 13 verse every creature which was in heaven and on the Earth I John saw all beasts in heaven. for I expect he saw the beasts of a 1000 forms from 10,000 worlds like this, the grand secret was to tell what was in heaven.
John learned that God glorified himself by saving all that his hands had made whether beasts, fowl fishes or man. Any man who would tell you that this could not be, would tell you that the revelations are not true. John heard the words of the beasts giving glory to God and understood them. God who made the beasts could understand every language spoken by them; The beasts were intelligent beings and were seen and heard by John praising and glorifying God.
religionists of the day say that the beasts spoken of in the revelations represent
Kingdoms. Very well, on the same principle we can say that the twenty four Elders
spoken of represent beasts, for they are all spoken of at the same time, and
represented as all
|John learned that God glorified himself by saving all that his hands made- a man who would tell you that this could not be would tell you that the Revelation John heard the words they said. God could understand every language they talked- the beasts were intelligent being giving glory. The living religions says that the beasts represent kingdoms very well on the same principle teh 24 Er represent beast- said the [?] wqs flat as a pan-cake- Calculate to overthrow the technicalities fo the world. Again there is no Rev. to prove (& we never can comprehend) without Rev.)||
God will glorify himself with all these animals.--
¶ says one I cannot believe in salvation of beasts. I suppose God could understand the beasts &c, in certain worlds== the 4 beasts Were angels there. don't know where they come from, they were intelligent.--but my Darling religion, says, they meant something beside beast.--then the 24 elders must mean something else:--4 beasts meant Buonpart & Cyrus. &c. then the 24 elders meant the kingdoms of the beasts. It is all as flat as a pancake
¶ What do you use such flat and vulgar expressions for being a prophet? because the old women understand it, they make pancakes. the whole argument is flat. & I don't know of any thing better to represent the argument.--
¶ there is no revelation any where to show that the beasts meant any thing but beasts.
We may spiritualize and express opinions to all eternity but that is no authority.
¶ Ye Elders of Israel hearken to my voice and when ye are sent into the world to preach, preach and cry aloud "repent ye for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand repent and believe the gospel."
|if we spiritualize no authority) Ye Ers of israel hearken to my voice and when ye are sent into the world to preach repent ye for the K. of h is at hand.||¶ 0 ye Elders of Israel hearken to my voice & when ye are sent into the world to preach, tell them things you are sent to tell. declare the first principles, &|
Never meddle with the visions of beasts and subjects you do not understand. Er Brown when you go to Palmyra don't say any thing about the beast, but preach those things the Lord has told you to preach about, repentance and baptism for the remission of sins.
|never meddle with the beasts & subjects you do not understand. Er Brown when you go to Palmyra dont say any thing about the beasts the Lord||
let mysteries alone lest you be overthrown.--
¶ Father Brown when you go to palmyra say nothing about the 4 Beasts.
¶ (He here read Rev. ch 13 v 1 to 8) The spiritualizers say the beast that received the wound was Nebuchadnezzar,
but we will look at what John saw in relation to this beast. The translators have
used the term "dragon" for "devil". Now it was a beast that John saw in heaven,
and he was then speaking of "things that were shortly to come to pass." and
consequently the beast John saw could not be Nebuchadnezzar The beast John saw
|read Rev. c13 verse 2- they say the beasts that received the wound was nebuchadnezer-. what John saw in relation to this beast they have used the term Devil for dragon- it was a beast that John waw in heaven - what was shortly to come to pass. the beast was an actual b to which power was to be given an intelligent being in heaven - to have power given - John saw it had been wounded. All the world wondered after the be and if the beast was the world how could the world wonder after the beast. nebucha & constantine not excepted. it must have been a been that the humman being wondered after. When God gives power to a beast to destroy all will wonder. read verse 4. the inhabitants declared who is able to make war & they worshipped the dragon - some say it means the k's of the O dont meen the K of the saints- suppose it means the k's of the O what propriety is there in saying who is able to make war with myself.||
Daniel [Revelation] Chapter 13 2nd verse---some say Deadly wound means Nebuchadnezzar
--Constantine & the catholic now for the Wasp nest.--priests & Dragon for Devil they
have translated beast in heaven--it was not to represent beast in heaven--it was an
angel in heaven who has power in the last days to do a work--all the world wondered
after the beast, & if the beast was all the world, how could the world wondered
after the beast? When the old devil shall give power to the beast to do all his
mighty works all the world will wonder--
¶ Who is able to make war with the beast? says the inhabitants of the earth. if it means the kingdom of the world it don't mean the kingdoms of the Saints.--who is able to make war with my great big self.--
If these spiritualiz
||If these interpretation are true the book contradicts itsef in almost every verse- but they are not true. There is a mistranslation - the original word means the devil instead of the dragon- vers 9 ch 12 that old serpent called the devil every thing that we have not a key word to we will take it as it reads- the beast were being in h - that were to have power give this as a key to the Ers-||
The Dragon.--we may interpret it.--& it is sometimes Apollyon. 9 verse 12
chap.--key word.--independent beast. abstract from the human family.--(25
minutes past 11. lungs failed. the wind blew briskly.) I said more than I
ever did before except once at Ramus. & then the little apostates [?] stuffed
me like a |
1. Here Joseph Smith continues his preaching about the book of Revelations. He repeats and amplifies what he said at Ramus, Ill. earlier on April 2, 1843 (see 2Apr43). The subject had apparently come up in a Lyceum.
2. Perhaps Joseph's attitude about preaching speculative doctrine was influenced by his troubles with the Missourians and the difficulties in Kirtland. On the other hand, he does not seem to extend the same length of rope to those who refuse to be corrected on fundamental issues. His curses on adulterers are an example as well as difficulties with John Bennett and later the Law brothers. High council trials on doctrinal issues abounded. But apparently Joseph does not agree with drastic discipline for innocent errors. The lesson for the high council was apparently that they had to be prepared with a superior explanation if they hoped to correct someone.